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Heheh … I still have to watch LotR:TTT! (And RotK!) But I’m looking forward to it, because the scenery is breathtaking.

As for the engagement right – I guess the carats is an easy measurement of how well off the man is (2-month rule?), but there are other factors that aren’t as apparent: the quality of the diamond (or other gem), and the size of her finger! E.g., my very well-to-do friend bought his wife a 0.70 carat ring, but it is virtually flawless. But, if it were any bigger, it would look gawdy on her tiny hand. So … can’t really judge it by its size.

Iron Ring – some Americans? Really?? I thought it was still restricted to Canadian graduands. My female ‘geer friends still wear theirs, as I do mine. Call it reward for suffering through all those years. Two of them that got married kept their IRs on at the wedding.

You also forgot … ringtones. Ring ring!

Posted by N on 29 February 2004 @ 9pm

I don’t agree with the 2-month rule for engagement rings, but then I’m not sure how I feel about engagement rings in particular. I imagine they came about to “claim your woman” in the days when dowry and such were popular. In any case, if it were based solely on salary, would Steve Jobs buy just a $0.17 ring, then?

Apparently, some school out in Rhode Island also has a similar iron ring tradition. Still, I say that Canadians started it.

And you’re not getting away with such a tiny side-mention of your new tablet PC. Still waiting.

Posted by Ben on 1 March 2004 @ 1am

Actually engagement rings are a pure marketing driven product that came about in the mid to late 19th century if memory recalls.

Basically it the diamond industry pulled off this amazing marketing job of making everyone pay super inflated prices for a product that really is only rare because the company has a monopoly on the supply.

Diamond prices are inflated in an even more ridiculous way than Ticketmaster prices.

Well – enough ranting. Having said all that – yes I did buy the one I love a shiny, sparkly ring and have no regrets about doing it.

Posted by Chris on 1 March 2004 @ 7pm

Well, I think Diamond ring has become more of an expectation than a tradition. I’m probably one to question this but when it comes down to it, I’ll probably just bite my lips and buy the stupid ring. If you start your marriage without what she wants, you will have the rest of your life to hear her complain. I think the price of the ring is worth the peace and quiet.

Posted by Mike on 1 March 2004 @ 9pm

That’s not fair to say that! Of course, it is nice to have the “ring”. I know some girls, including myself, would rather use that money on something else like the down payment of a house. I guess it all comes down to how much money the couple/man has. I am not saying I will say “NO” if my boyfriend proposes to me with the “ring”, but I believe a couple should work as a team to make their lives better and happy. In the end, I guess it really depends on what the priority of the “ring” is to the couple.

Posted by Kathryn on 1 March 2004 @ 10pm

I’ll have to agree with Kathryn. There are better places to spend that kind of money. (Although, wow, Kathryn, what ring was going to be a down-payment??) I would be uneasy wearing a ring that cost that much, anyway.

It is tradition, but it doesn’t have to be expensive. I’d be happy enough just having a ring (for the symbolic, not materialistic aspect). My friends told me how their buddy bought a 300.00AUD engagement ring for his girl. (They broke up afterward, but I don’t know that that had anything to do with the ring.)

Fellows, let me introduce you to … Moissanite. All the terrific qualities of a diamond (even sparklier) at one-tenth the cost.

Posted by N on 2 March 2004 @ 1am

w.r.t. being judged by the ring. That happens all the time. That being said, do you really care what those people think? All the friends that really matter would judge you more by the wonderful gifts that you gave them by celebrating your engagement. “Wow Kevin, congratulations! I can’t believe you got engaged. Thanks for the Plasma TV. You must be doing really well.”

Posted by JWan on 2 March 2004 @ 6am

N: I guess I should say going towards to down-payment. That was a true story from my friends. The couple bought a condo before the girl got her enagement ring. She was happy getting the ring, but she wished that he would put the money toward their down-payment instead.

Posted by Kathryn on 2 March 2004 @ 9am

I wonder whether it’s always true that people judge finance by the size of the ring. Yes, if a man spends a lot of money and buys a massive diamond ring for his fiance-to-be, one could guess that he’s doing well (or stupid). But if he doesn’t buy a fortune-for-the-finger, I don’t know that people will assume he’s short on cash. Someone who buys a nice car can be assumed to be financially well off — someone who buys a regular car might be a rich but frugal man.

Posted by Kevin on 2 March 2004 @ 9pm

There IS a limit to the size of ring; at some point, it will look overbearing on her hand, too flaunty, and (more than likely) too gawdy. A ring doesn’t indicate the level or depth of one’s love, only of one’s pocket for that kind of thing. Moissanite. Remind me (quietly, to the side) if I ever ask about purchasing a ring.

“Honey, will you marry me?” he proposed, on one knee, brandishing a new PowerBook with CinemaDisplay and full surround sound speaker system for her.

Posted by Ben on 3 March 2004 @ 6pm

I’m happy with the simple heirloom gold ring that Brendon gave me. There’s more thought in that than in a polished piece of rock. But everyone that I met since getting married has always rudely grabbed my hand and said “Let me see the ring!” To which I say, “I don’t wear blood diamonds or other stones.” Shuts them up and I don’t have to go into the story behind my ring. All women don’t want a ring, but if you give her one it will make it easier to deal with the ones that expect them.

Posted by Ashley on 3 March 2004 @ 9pm

At the risk of seeming superficial, I’ll be the first to say it – practicality aside, I’d want a nice piece of bling bling on my finger (guess I’m just a sucker for sparkly things =)). Having said that I do think the money would be better spent on other things. So, I’m thinking along the lines of either not wearing a diamond ring at all or if I do, I’d want it to be a nice one.

As for whether a man’s judged by the ring… well I’ve known plenty of well-to-do guys that don’t buy extravagant rings and plenty of poor dudes that go into debt buying massive rocks. So no, I definitely don’t judge.

Oh and I always thought it was 3-4 months?

One last thought… it doesn’t stop with the ring… same issues (costs, perceptions) apply to the wedding event itself.

Posted by Judy on 4 March 2004 @ 8am

As alluded to by Chris, the diamond engagement ring is one of the slickest marketing tricks ever pulled off. De Beers effectively inserted the idea into our culture (and cultures the world over). Now everyone believes it’s the way it has always been. Kind of like how people conceive of Santa Claus as a fat, white bearded man in a red suit. That image was actually created by Coca Cola.

Diamonds are an artificially scarce product with a much smaller intrisic value than the price they command. That is why De Beers is running scared now that synthetic diamonds are getting so good. New vapour deposition created diamonds are perfectly flawless, completely indistinguishable from natural diamonds (even at the molecular level), and can be produced for as little as $5 a a carat. They can currently grow them as large as 3 carats and they can create coloured diamonds (which are much scarcer than colourless diamonds). See the “New Diamond Age” article in Wired 11.09 (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html)

Moissanite seems like an intreguing option …

Posted by SP on 4 March 2004 @ 9am

One thing I’ve never gotten an answer on: Does the ’2 months salray’ rule refer to pre-tax or post-tax salary?

Spending absurd amounts of money on a ring, is, well, absurd. A friend of mine bought his fiancee a very nice, classy, but simple, ring for about $500, and also a car, for their engagement. Which do you think she gets more use out of?

On a tangentially related note, I just bought a ring that’s made entirely out of titanium. It’s super light, and damn near indestructable. I think steel and titanium jewelry is much cooler than gold and silver, because you can do so much more with it.

Posted by Afreet on 4 March 2004 @ 4pm

If an engagement ring should priced based on salary, whether it be 2 months’, 3 months’, 4 months’, before or after tax, I say to propose while you’re unemployed (i.e. in school or between jobs).

Posted by Kevin on 4 March 2004 @ 10pm

I was very surprised to find that one of my friends had a strict rule about an engagement ring for her. $10k, no less.

I’m not really sure how she came about this magic number, but it sure changed my impression of her after that. We had a long discussion about why or why not, and what saying such things says about you. As many such chats have shown later on, her “rule” was not thought out; many factors came into play and she backtracked to the 3-month rule (that X in the X-month rule keeps growing, I’ve noticed, when girls remember it). And yet, it didn’t hold if one’s salary were low, because “what kind of ring can you get for $500??”

It was a frustrating talk to see that someone still feels that way, puts so much value into a rock that catches the glimmers of other girls and thieves.

Needless to say, she is (still) single.

Posted by Ben on 5 March 2004 @ 6pm

I definitely disagree with her! I frown upon girls who have rules about what ring the guy must propose to them with.

The ring should not be a price the guy has to pay to marry her! If a one’s gf demand a specific ring price, one should really think about whether she’s after his money or she’s really truly in love with him.

Posted by C on 5 March 2004 @ 10pm

Does anywone want to sell their “iron ring” ?

Posted by Mike on 1 September 2006 @ 6am

Well, I just got an engagement ring from my fiancee, it’s a small diamond but what counts most to me is us being together. Shall I mention that he has scheduled a trip to Madrid, Spain, well, that is what I am most pleased about the whole thing. I love him dearly, ring or no ring. A ring is a symbol of love, and it doesn’t matter to me who comments about the small diamond on my engagement ring, I’ll just throw in the Spain trip.

Posted by Mary Gonzalez on 2 June 2008 @ 11pm